Transcript

00:00:01 - [LISA_LAW]
It is perfectly fine, from my perspective. Now I guess we'll we'll see how the topic ends up playing out.

00:00:11 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Well, if don't mind.

00:00:13 - [CHDE]
Yeah. So, Lisa, I mean, obviously, you know, I was there the last two weeks, along with Alex and Tim and some people from the team. I'm thought about over the weekend. I'm I'm really very concerned with, with Chad. Nice guy. I think knows you know, has the head knowledge, knows knows things about warehousing and operations. For me, the the bottom line is, you know, he never came in before eight. He left promptly at 0359 every day, you know, knowing that the rest of us are gonna are putting in fourteen, fifteen hour days. I I really struggle with I had a conversation with him on Friday, and he's like, well, you know, I just wanna work eight to four. I'm like, well, eight to four? I mean, that's and he's taking a good solid one hour lunch break. That's seven hour workday, man. Like, I I'm not saying you need to work twelve hour days, but at least a forty hour week. And so I'm just really struggling with, I guess, what I would call lack of motivation, lack of any kind of dedication. You know, we we we didn't hide from him in the interview process what this role would be like, especially initially as we're ramping up and it's all brand new. And I know he's got personal you know, he's got little kids. I I get that. And I think it's just a situation where he's not able to give what we need at this point in time.

00:01:35 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah.

00:01:35 - [CHDE]
And and there's some other little subtle things like, you know, we we asked him to join us for lunch every day. Never once did he take us up on that. And you would think like, okay, your, you know, your boss and your boss's boss are in town. You'd wanna sit down and and get to know the team a little bit. So those are more on the, like, level of commitment. I'm just not seeing what I would expect. Makes me very uncomfortable because I'm like, okay. Well, when we're if that's the what he puts out when we're there, like, what what's gonna happen when we're not there? Yeah. And I think the I think it will also harbor resentment within the broader logistics team because, you know, Scott's supervisor's back there, they're coming in at 0630 and leaving at four. You know? And, like, okay, you're coming in at eight and leaving at four and taking a long long lunch break.

00:02:14 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Like, if I was working for somebody like that as as Caleb would

00:02:17 - [CHDE]
be starting today, I'm not gonna be very happy about that. I'm gonna I'm gonna be very resentful very quickly. And so I'm just yeah. I'm I don't have a good feeling. And so I wanna talk to you about, you know, what are your thoughts? You know, what would be the process if we decide to let him go?

00:02:35 - [LISA_LAW]
So the, it's interesting enough that you brought that up. There is, I think, some language in our handbook that talks about kind of a probationary period. I wanna say Amity and I chatted about it, and I think it says something along the lines of, like, within the first ninety days. So, I mean, we do have some, I guess, recourse here. I mean, if if we just determine like, hey. It's just this is not working out. It's not a good fit. I I don't believe that we've got, you know, a a huge amount of of risk on our side if, you know, we were transparent in the process. My bigger concern is obviously just knowing that we've got to get a good person in here, before I'd say we'd want to move towards a release. You'd wanna have a backfill. Right?

00:03:29 - [CHDE]
Well, absolutely. I mean, I can't I can't move forward without a solid plan b option, and I I realize that. I'm working on that. I got a few things that I'm chasing down that that could be options. Another one just to add to the mix here, not that you need more reasons, but, like, it's not just the time. Three days in a row, I asked him to take out the trash. There's, like, six giant boxes full of trash. And here we are Friday afternoon. He leaves. They're still sitting there. And it's like, you know, that that also is he doesn't wanna do it. Yeah. He he I know he doesn't wanna do it. And so he's waiting for Caleb to start so he can have Caleb go take out the trash. And it's like, look, that's not the culture we have here. Everybody can take out the trash. Everybody can shrinkwrap pallets. Like, you know, I asked him to shrinkwrap pallets last week, and he went and tried to find somebody on Steve's team to shrinkwrap pallets because he didn't wanna do it. And I'm like, I know it's not a fun task, but lots of the tasks we've done the last two weeks are not really not that fun even for me.

00:04:24 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah.

00:04:24 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
So

00:04:26 - [LISA_LAW]
I would say, at this point in time, I mean, we probably need to start documenting some of that and getting some follow ups to him in kind of either a a written form so that, you know and and I think that timing of this, obviously, you were onsite here last week and just following through of just saying like, hey. This is these are the things that I've recognized. This is not acceptable behavior and just kind of laying a foundation here so that when we do have an exit, we we've got, you know, the proper foundation to be able to do that. I I'd I'd be interested to hear your thoughts as far as, like, a a plan b here and

00:05:14 - [CHDE]
Well, I can I can yeah? I wanna be transparent. I can share with you. So a gentleman that I've known for a very, very long time and also Scott has known for a very long time, he worked at Festool for many years and was part of the the layoffs last year. I had had him him come up actually last week and build out some some furniture for lack of a better term. And he never crossed my mind, but I got to talking to him. His name is Brent Shively. And, you know, he was in the marketing team, but if you know his background, he comes from construction, and then he was in customer service, and then the application specialist. And so he kinda worked his way into, like, a trainer over the years. And I had a good conversation with him, and he's quite frankly, he's a little bit lost. He doesn't know what to do next. He's working part time at Lowe's, and as I started scratching my head, was like, you know, he's actually he's a hard worker. He he loves the products in the company. Somebody I trust completely, and he's he likes the aspect of not being at a desk and and being up and moving at this point in his life. Right? And so I had a conversation with him Saturday morning. I said, Brent, I know this is a totally different career type job than what you're used to, but I said, honestly, you check a lot of the boxes. You're organized, you're structured, you're methodical, you're you're dedicated, you're a super hard worker. I was like, I I think you might actually enjoy this at this point, you know, in your career, in your life. He doesn't really wanna do marketing ish stuff anymore anyway. He's entertained going back into construction, but at his age, he's like, I don't know if I can really do that at this point. So I was like, well, think about it. I was I I think honestly, said, I think he'd be a great fit for And he he he texted me this morning and said he actually is interested. He, of course, wants to learn a little bit more. So I know that's a little unconventional, but that that is my best plan b I have right now.

00:06:56 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Yeah. And and, transparently, I tried to hire him for my facilities role, but he wasn't ready at the time to think alternatively. So I'm jealous because I wanted him, but he would be an incredible hire if we could pick him back up. Yeah. For sure.

00:07:11 - [LISA_LAW]
Is there is there any clauses in the brief process of rehires?

00:07:22 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
No. Nothing that would stop us.

00:07:24 - [LISA_LAW]
Okay. Okay. I I that was just the initial, like, reductions that I've been a part of in the past there that some of those kind of have happened. So just wanting to,

00:07:37 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
again, just leaning on what I because we discussed it, but because I was actually trying to get him to come on board as my facilities person, I purposefully mixed that. So

00:07:49 - [LISA_LAW]
All good. I would love to certainly, you know, be a part of the process here as well. I think I mean, you guys have some history there. And Yeah. Ultimately, Chris, I mean, you you need a a solid, dependable team player that's gonna be able to carry on what you're we're trying to do here. So, yeah, I I don't

00:08:13 - [CHDE]
You know, I thought I really thought he was gonna be that. It's just so hard to tell in an interview process. Like, you know, he checked a lot of the right boxes, but work ethic is something that's really hard to to suss out in an interview. Right? And it's unfortunate. And I, you know, I know he has little children. I I really do sympathize with that. I've been there as well. I know it's exhausting, but at the same time, you know, that just we may not be a right fit for each other at this point in his his life, unfortunately.

00:08:41 - [LISA_LAW]
So Completely understand. I Do we so one

00:08:48 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
question, Lisa, is is do do you think that it would benefit us as a company more to since he's so early and inside his ninety days, days, is is there do you think that there's better opportunities for us to try and rectify the situation, or is it if we just identify bad fit right away, then should we go with our gut? And the the reason I ask is my logistics team is is very much not pleased with him as a colleague, and it's become an issue more than once. And let me just say in my initial interview, I I liked him okay. There were just some weird, I don't know, quirks, I guess, of of, like, how he answered some questions and, like, kind of avoided answering some things because I think we know shared people, and he really didn't like that. So it just made me a little concerned. So

00:09:40 - [LISA_LAW]
I don't have any concerns with us, I guess, hearing the feedback that Chris is providing right now. Like, those are things like, you're gonna put your best foot forward within the first, you know, initial couple of weeks and knowing like, these kind of things don't generally eke up until later into the process. So if we're already starting out where someone's not wanting to be a team player, they're not trying to be collaborative, They're, you know, not wanting to do you know, in meeting the basic expectations of, like, I don't I don't know where we have to go from there.

00:10:18 - [CHDE]
Well, I'm with you. I'm with you. You know, he's he's reporting to Alex, and Alex is a very hard worker. And she's less patient than I am, but she's also very frustrated. And so, like, even within my team, there's already some resentment brewing, and I can't have that. You know? We're too small, which that's the whole reason we left the third third party is, like, we dealt with a lot of that. We don't wanna have that within our own team if at all possible to avoid it. So, yeah, I I I'm coming back over Wednesday. I'll be there Wednesday and Thursday, so I potentially would might wanna do something that soon if that's okay. Yep.

00:10:51 - [LISA_LAW]
I don't don't have an issue with that. Can I I I'm hesitating on this side just because I never want to have any bias here, but my husband has just started looking for employment, worked for FedEx for several years, and did a lot of that work? Right now, he he has he has worked at the place that I just came from. He's actually their safety specialist, but prior to that was, production supervisor, coordinator, all the things. It is just not a great environment for him to be in at all. Mhmm. Like something very fast paced. I would love to throw you his resume and plea completely don't even associate him with me whatsoever. I mean, if you see something at all that you think might be a bit a fit, we don't have small children.

00:11:51 - [CHDE]
Oh, by the way, having children, I have small children, right? So it's not a problem at all. People have children. That's great. Like, we need the world to have children. You know, it's not like I'm not taking it out on him because he has little kids. No.

00:12:04 - [LISA_LAW]
But I think prioritizing, like, hey, what I know of you is you were probably very upfront in the process here. Like, hey, setting up this facility, it's not gonna be a standard, hey, that you can come and do that. Again, guess leading in the way that you did, and I wish I was a little I know Vanessa kinda kinda took the lead on on this just because I think I had just gotten hired or was just, like, in the initial But, nonetheless, like I said, it I if if there's any if you see us resume and you feel like that, hey. Maybe a a conversation might be worth having, I I certainly was just throwing out a a plan c option here for you.

00:12:49 - [CHDE]
Well, that's that's great because, you know, with Brent, I don't know where his head's at, you know, if we could, you know, if we can make him an offer that he would and one other thing just for you to know, like, we have ambitions internally as a team to evolve beyond just what it's like what we would like to do in the future is we'd like to have our own three d printers and label cards, some more services that we would do out of the warehouse. And that was also why I'm, like, kicking myself. I didn't think of Brett sooner as an option. Because, like, he's the type of guy that given his, let's say, production and construction background, you could be very comfortable giving him these tasks and say, hey, Brett. We wanna we wanna stand up this service. Can you make it happen? And he he could make it happen. So, like, there there's a lot of elements of him, but if it he it may not work out. Right? It may not work out. And so having a plan c and a plan d is also Yeah. A good thing.

00:13:38 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. No. I I don't have any problems whatsoever with kind of the the exit strategy that we're thinking of here. I know there was some I felt a little bit of some frustrations last week just in a couple of the initial interactions, in so, you know, I

00:14:02 - [CHDE]
By the by the way, Lisa, you know, I had a conversation with him on Friday. He kept reaching out to you about this new third hire, and I've already told him multiple times in person. The third hire is not approved. We budgeted for it. Yes. But I said, look. Until we can demonstrate need, we are not going to hire the third person. And part of that need would be you need to work more than a seven hour a day before, you know, I'm gonna approve a third hire.

00:14:24 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah.

00:14:25 - [CHDE]
And he kept proceeding with the interviews. And I'm like, why are you interviewing these people when, you know, we what if it turns out you hire the third person, and then it's only a two person job and you have to let that person go? I said, that's terrible.

00:14:34 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. Yeah. No. I I get it completely. Yeah. I guess that's where I was some of my interaction, I mean, with with Caleb, and I totally understood that maybe there was just some miscommunication on that part. But then also, yeah, I I thought that I had understood from you as well that, hey. We're we're still keeping this open, but it's not necessarily approved yet. So I was confused a little bit about the stressing of like, we gotta get another person in here. So I appreciate that additional feedback on your end.

00:15:12 - [CHDE]
Well, again, I think reading between the lines, it is for sure a two person job right now. But I think he doesn't want to do any of the physical work, which we explained to him expressly in the interview process. Like, you're gonna be maybe at your desk an hour a day. The rest of the time, you should be out there picking, packing, you know, etcetera. It's a hands on job. And I don't think he wants to do a hands on job based on what I saw the last couple weeks because there was lots of opportunity to do hands on things, and he didn't didn't do any of it. Yeah. So, you know, and then some of the things he told us were misleading. You know, he told us he was comfortable with the forklifts and whatnot. And and the reality is, you know, he never wanted to run the high reach trucks to go pull down stock above the, let's say, the floor level. And it's like, look, man, you know, that's he had a bad experience years ago with one, so he's scared of driving those vehicles, which is fine. But it's like, okay. That's a big part of your job is replenishment, and and you can't go grab a bill every time you need to get a pallet down.

00:16:06 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. Ugh.

00:16:07 - [CHDE]
Yeah. So, like, there, bottom line, there were many things. I was very distracted because we were busy the last two weeks. I didn't wanna mentally try to digest this. But as I had time for the weekend, I'm like, this just isn't gonna work.

00:16:19 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. You wanna give people the benefit of the doubt, and I think that's what I hear you most most, you know, kind of just stressing is like, hey, here was this. And then but when you add up multiple things, I I think the biggest thing here for me is like the fact that, you know, not it it just sends a wrong message to the rest of the team. I mean, the the hours that he's working knowing that, hey. We were setting setting up this facility here. You again, you would want to think that somebody would be leading in with their best foot forward in those first initial and wanting to also build rapport with the rest of your team. Like, that's disappointing for me to to hear that that's not the same mentality. And I get it. Everybody wants to have good work life balance and have the things, but just

00:17:06 - [CHDE]
So do I. Yeah. I do too. Right? Like, I get it. You know? And this was an exceptional time. It's not the normal business, but you know? Yeah. One last question. So, like, let's just playing out a scenario here. If if I talk to Brent and I I I'm gonna propose that I meet with him on Wednesday just to discuss and answer any questions he might have. Let's say he was ready to come on board and he was excited about it, and we could make him an offer that he found acceptable. I know there's the two week thing, but I don't have two weeks. Like, could we find a way to say, like, okay, Chad's final day is Friday. Like, you're starting Monday. Is that is that technically possible?

00:17:44 - [LISA_LAW]
No issues on my end because I think, you know, I think the two week thing, at least the way that it's been painted to me, was more or less IT needed enough time to get up and running. But we've we've also just went to them directly and said, hey. Can we make an exception here? This is the situation. I don't think that should be an issue at all.

00:18:07 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Funny story. He still has an account, so we don't have to do anything.

00:18:10 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. I was gonna say and that's the other thing is, like, you probably are it it's gonna be a very easy, like, turn the faucet back on type of situation here with

00:18:20 - [CHDE]
He worked here for almost twenty years. Right? He knows the billing. He knows all of our infrastructure IT wise. If he still has an account, we turn it back on because, like, I that would be my suggestion. It's like, okay, man. You're working twenty hours a week at Lowe's. Let's start on Monday. You know, we don't need to we don't need to drag this on for weeks and months. Assuming he wants to do it, that would be my ideal outcome.

00:18:41 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. Absolutely. No. I don't I don't see any issues on that side. And I think I mean, obviously, IT reports up through Scott, so we just have to get an exception request over to that team. But it wouldn't be any problems on my end because I think that's usually the holdup process is to, like, just making sure that those pieces get get kicked back on.

00:19:02 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
K. No concerns. We'd be fine.

00:19:06 - [CHDE]
This is very helpful. Thank you. Yeah.

00:19:10 - [LISA_LAW]
I would say definitely an email over to to Chad just kind of documenting what was last week and and not being completely transparent, like but at least just documenting like, hey. The the these are the things that I observed last week. Not acceptable. We or maybe softening it just a little bit. But, certainly just recognizing like, hey. This in order for us to be successful, you know, this this isn't gonna be able to be a thing to move forward with.

00:19:49 - [CHDE]
Yep. I can absolutely do that. I will keep it professional and and to the point. I can also, I can blind copy you into the email just so you have it.

00:19:58 - [LISA_LAW]
Okay. I trust you. And Alright. I guess let me know after you have the conversation on Wednesday with with Brent. I think that's obviously a a solid plan b. If if he's got interest, completely great with that because I think it's a a solid win here for the business to get somebody back that's, you know, spent so much time here. If that doesn't work out, give me a holler, and I'll have my husband shoot you his resume, or he can at least send it. Again, I try not to play bias here whatsoever, but happy to get it over to you for at least a conversation if it doesn't work out here with Brent.

00:20:34 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Either way, Lisa, wanna send it to me just because we have I'm undergoing strategic review of the warehouse in general and and looking for people that think a little different. So

00:20:46 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. No. I mean, I'm happy to shoot it to you in the interim here. He's like I said, he's just kind of started looking. So I was just when he said that, I was just like, well, could be a solid fit. But and, again, Scott, I can I'm happy to send it over to you.

00:21:02 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
If if you're comfortable with that. Yeah. Just because yeah. I'm I'm always looking for the right people, and they're harder to find than you think. So

00:21:10 - [CHDE]
Yeah. Also, Lisa, I mean, I told Scott, you know, it's a little discouraging for me because not that I've hired a ton of people in my career, but it's like I've often the ones I've hired that I had some history with have almost always worked out better, and I've been more you know, you know what you're getting. Right? Yeah. And to me, I'd say it really is worth a lot because we tried doing it, I would say, the conventional way. If you post a job and do this, we we we're over two. And so it's like yeah. At this stage where we have no real redundancy within the team, getting somebody you can trust and that you know will work hard and be dependable is so critical for me right now. And, yeah, it's just a reminder that I don't know. It's the whole interview process is is hard to know a 100 until you really have somebody working for you.

00:22:01 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. It's it's definitely an interesting, candidate market right now. So I can certainly know that it poses so much more of a challenge. I'm I'm hoping for us Scott, Amity may have chatted with you about this, but we're hoping to go some type of down a route of being able to use some assessments to help kind of see, like, hey, job fit, which you can't really know everything about an individual, but being able to have them take some kind of assessment to be able to see like, hey, where are your values? I think people are less likely to fly under the radar when you you have these type of assessments.

00:22:48 - [CHDE]
I would I would agree, and I had to do that almost fifteen years ago when I started. You know, we did some kind of it was like a Myers Briggs type type thing. Right? And and, you know, at the end of the day, most of those tests, they're set up in a way that there's so much the questions asked so many times in so many different ways, it's really hard to fool it. A 100. And so I think that would be welcome. I would welcome that. Just to have another data point on is this person really a match for us from a cultural standpoint? Because, you know, just because they've got the right experience doesn't mean they're gonna work well with us.

00:23:20 - [LISA_LAW]
Exactly. Exactly. So it's probably a little bit down the road here for for that to be instituted, but definitely helps not only from the hiring process, but I envision us to be able to use that from the internal coaching process as far as developing teams of seeing, hey, it starts with self awareness, like, hey, taking these kind of assessments, this is how I show up, and how I need to better self manage. But from a people manager standpoint, you can kind of work towards like, hey. This is is my team mix here, and, this is what folks you know, improvement opportunities that we all have.

00:24:02 - [CHDE]
Awesome. Alright, Lisa. Hey. Thanks a lot. If I have any other questions, I'll I'll I'll probably reach out to you in purse are you gonna be in the office Wednesday? Yep. Okay. So I might I might stop by and chat with you a little bit Wednesday then when I'm back in town. I'll see how the next couple days go. So, hopefully, I have more more information.

00:24:20 - [LISA_LAW]
Sounds great. I am I, actually met Caleb just a little bit ago, downstairs. He came in, chatted with Minnie. So looking forward to spend a little bit of time with him this afternoon. Hopefully, things work out okay with with him.

00:24:34 - [CHDE]
What what was your first impression? A good good impression? Or

00:24:37 - [LISA_LAW]
Very soft spoken.

00:24:39 - [CHDE]
Yeah. Okay.

00:24:40 - [LISA_LAW]
Soft spoken, very reserved, which is fine. Just, I guess, normally, I I lead in with warmth and friendliness, especially on a day one, and I didn't get that immediate impression. Mini was Mini. And so I think he was kinda taken aback because she was like, good morning, Caleb. How are you this day? And it was just very reserved. So Okay. Hopefully he warms up.

00:25:10 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Minnie did say he she said, he comes across with a dry personality, but it's under there. I found it a few times, so that's good news,

00:25:17 - [LISA_LAW]
Vanessa. Wonderful.

00:25:19 - [CHDE]
Well, I still got I still got Tim, and Alex will be back onsite today. So I'll checkin with them at the end of the day and kinda get their take on how how it's going with with him as well. Because I'm sure yeah. It could be interesting in the next few weeks with him. He's gonna be like, what is going on here?

00:25:34 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. Absolutely.

00:25:35 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Well and you might Chris, you might find a way to keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't get abused in the short term and starts looking outside the company real quick or something because I can see that.

00:25:46 - [CHDE]
Oh, the good the good news is Alex will be there all this week. I'll be there a couple days this week. So we'll yeah. We'll have people around that can hopefully

00:25:54 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
I just wanna make sure that the new boss wasn't pushing around the new employee kind of stuff. So

00:25:58 - [LISA_LAW]
Yeah. Absolutely.

00:26:00 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Alright. Thanks, guys.

00:26:02 - [LISA_LAW]
Thank you.

00:26:03 - [SCOTT_WARNER]
Take care.

00:26:03 - [CHDE]
Bye bye.